hyyy

这个航海测距可能有误差，而且，射击距离和交战距离是两个概念．

hyyy

这个是一定的了,独迷写的中文资料嘛,能写11000就不错了,要是我110码都敢写,反正YY嘛,还就有人信

hyyy

你那篇文章是某作者在斯湾文章的基础上改动过了的,至于作者是谁,我就不知道了.........

hyyy

随便吧,牛人,我不说了,那资料已经YY的不行了,也就你信,实际的情况是,9 ?+ L6 h7 Y% A
英国人在3:37分就发现了德国人,德国人还啥都不知道,4点05分英国人开炮,距离19000玛(可能有测距误差,但也很接近小编写的距离了),4点17分第一次命中了,格舰被击中主炮火控系统,功能丧失,转用备份,这期间的战果完全是雷达引导取得,而且德舰在4:11分虽然有反击,但一弹没中.4 A* ^6 S  G+ @5 K1 q  t0 k
再看国内的资料就变成了,4月9日晨4时30分，在卢夫腾岛（Lofoten Islands）西南海域航行的格诺森瑙号装备的雷达探测到有不明舰只靠近,5时左右，沙恩霍斯特号上的水兵发现远处有火炮射击产生的闪光
+ q/ s7 q. U  w2 Z7 @原来5时左右等于4时5分,我真是开眼了..................

hyyy

E文资料摆在那里了,楼上可以自己看嘛,如果不同意19000的距离,你可以拿出证据来,大家讨论,中文的就算了,我觉得19000的距离和实际距离应该差距不大了

hyyy

楼上的,这里没有啥反独,更不许哈独,我看你说话这口气还挺狂的,什么叫老实点,你要是来讨论的,咱们欢迎,要是来踢馆的,对不起,爱去哪玩去哪玩.别跑来评论BIKU...........这里不热闹,也没啥意思.
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( D% M- M7 ]8 b[ 本帖最后由 hyyy 于 2008-10-9 11:49 编辑 ]

hyyy

只言片语的英文资料,真可以,你那个就不是只言片语的中文资料,在同样的情况下,确实E文资料更可靠一些,当然不愿意看没关系嘛,不过你怎么知道我没有考证.那一大段E文你仔细看了没有,你就那么相信斯卡帕湾上写的东西.

hyyy

我发现楼上的越来越有BAIDU的风气了,和七爷倒是挺像的,就你那资料叫权威,其余的都是扯蛋,你凭啥说你那玩意一定正确,就因为是你手头有的,依你的逻辑,我手头的资料是这样的,
  j: ]9 h  r8 q0 Y- \6 v This battle occurred during the German invasion of Norway between the HMS Renown and the KM Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. The battle took place about 80 NM west of the Lofoten Islands. Sea state was full gale with very heavy seas. The battle opened at 0337 with the Renown having increased speed to 20 knots after spotting the two German ships. Renown was steaming west of the German's position giving her the advantage of being against the still dark sky while the German ships were silhouetted against the lightening eastern sky in morning nautical twilight. At 0405 the Renown opened fire on the Gneisenau whose crew was uncertain about the identity of the Renown and taking the Scharnhorst by surprise. $ `! L% U! E. D( j6 Y# U
Gneisenau replied at 0411. Both sides turned onto roughly parallel courses. At 0417 the Renown scored her first hit, taking out Gneisenau's main gunnery control station. The Gneisenau turned away onto a north-easterly heading and switched to secondary fire control. Scharnhorst followed laying smoke in an attempt to screen Gneisenau until she could reestablish her fire control ability. Both German ships increased their speed to about 28 knots. ( w2 z3 T# p5 e0 J; H  C, y! _
At 0417 the Renown scored her first hit, taking out Gneisenau's main gunnery control station.
5 w; f' j! F( k" \) v7 G3 a看这句上面写清楚了,4点17分命中,所以你那是YY的,这不就是用你的逻辑来解决问题么.

hyyy

而且关于开火的时间点,是不是采用了同样的区时,你考证过么.............那篇所谓的第三方资料没有任何权威性可言,而且只是开火时间重合了,并没有提到开火距离,我前面已经说了,时区问题你考虑了么,如果两篇恰好使用同一时区时间,那么重合有什么好奇怪的,你的时间和我的时间正好相差约一个小时,这个问题暂且放开不谈,你前面说19000是双方乱射的,后面又说是11000才开火的,不过两边都承认,是德国人先发现了英国人,你有啥证据说明,德国人先发现了英国人,要清楚,德国人当时雷达技术不如英国先进,而且当时的战场环境是德国人那边已经天亮了,而英国人还在黑夜中.Renown was steaming west of the German's position giving her the advantage of being against the still dark sky while the German ships were silhouetted against the lightening eastern sky in morning nautical twilight,两者都对德国人不利,德国人咋就先发现了,不要和我说德国水兵大能.从这点上看我的资料上说是英国人先发现了德国人,而且是打出了奇袭,好像更有道理些,在英国人准备开火时,德国人还没摸清英国人方位呢.  Z& x7 y. o/ ]: X, y+ ~! r6 I2 f1 P0 }
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[ 本帖最后由 hyyy 于 2008-10-9 13:12 编辑 ]

hyyy

你贴了两份就了不起啊,我自己也写一份贴上,也算两份不,真搞笑,BAIDU的研究人员就靠这个啊,怪不得到处被批,还是那句话,你那资料上写几点就是几点开战的啊,另外请看清楚,如果英文不好的话,我给你翻译下The battle opened at 0337 with the Renown having increased speed to 20 knots after spotting the two German ships.这话是说,战斗的起始时间是3点37分,以 Renown 发现目标并开始加速为起算点,什么地方说了开火了,这是以接敌为战斗起算点的说法,和开火有什么关系,战斗一定要以开火为起算啊,看清楚,我这里所说的开火时间是4点5分 At 19,000 yards Renown turned to a new course to expose her full broadside. At 0405 the Renown opened fire on the Gneisenau

hyyy

惊动LUCK版主了,真不好意思6 E7 ?# c9 x; U7 p1 c
那我就把问题的分歧列出来,大家一起来看% ~) J3 Z; ?4 ~3 q
第一,究竟是谁先发现了谁,按某人的话说是德国人先敌发现的.理由,好像没给出来: j% I9 y$ R1 g7 R" h1 f2 U9 P9 z
At 0430 on 9 April the Gneisenau reported a radar contact, and both ships went to battle stations. About 0507 the enemy opened fire.
: T2 L+ M. Y) _; l我的说法,英国人先发现并且准备开火时,德国人还不知道英国人的方位,英国人打出了奇袭理由如下:1,英国人雷达技术先进,2,当时的气象条件和时间条件明显有利英国,英国这边天是黑的,德国那边是亮的.
! ~6 Q9 y' q5 D" A# D  wThe battle opened at 0337 with the Renown having increased speed to 20 knots after spotting the two German ships. Renown was steaming west of the German's position giving her the advantage of being against the still dark sky while the German ships were silhouetted against the lightening eastern sky in morning nautical twilight. At 0405 the Renown opened fire on the Gneisenau whose crew was uncertain about the identity of the Renown and taking the Scharnhorst by surprise.
) k5 B( K! M3 d  T% g" D, @' O第二,究竟是多少距离开的炮,某人说11000码,我的意见19000码. U$ {, j8 o1 @: j) E8 X! U& Q
第三,什么时候取得的命中弹
! u& e* B" v8 Z; |% K2 m第四,时间上的问题,实际上,时间如果从时区的角度考虑,是可以对上的.刚还差一个小时左右.而且我发现了一个很有意思的问题,按某人的话说,At 0430 on 9 April the Gneisenau reported a radar contact,是德国人先发现的,而我的观点说The battle opened at 0337 with the Renown having increased speed to 20 knots after spotting the two German ships.,换算成等效时间的话,正好差7分钟,嘿嘿,某人来证明下,这篇战史记载究竟是如何能准确到这种地步,另外把我前面的雷达和时间问题解决.

hyyy

先在又是开火时间重合了,那好啊,时间问题解决了,因为我的资料和你的资料关于距离记载不一样,所以,证明我的资料错误,你的资料正确.这个逻辑真是强大的可以啊.

hyyy

是么,你贴出第二份所谓的权威资料了么,就算你那啥XX网站上记载的是真理,可是我看了三次,都没发现上面有写11000开战啊,怎么就成了一致了,你和我一样,还是空对空啊,你啥XX网,换算一下,时间也和我的一致,而且几乎是分秒不差.

hyyy

现在又成了声望在19000码准备开火,你这猜测的功夫还真了得.

hyyy

转向开始的时间你有资料么,还有德国人的航向和航速,你凭什么说明从转向到开火之间两舰缩短了8000................你有计算过么,就凭你文章中说的,11000的距离上命中了