关于英德战舰开火距离的材料

brokos

原始链接+ E- {, X1 u9 b+ m
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Capital Ships Surface Actions:3 ~" W2 B6 Q) R" ?9 `; q
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Lofoten Islands, 9 April 1940.
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  e0 B6 r9 t6 k2 TThe battle opened at 0337 with the Renown having increased speed to 20 knots after spotting the two German ships. Renown was steaming west of the German's position giving her the advantage of being against the still dark sky while the German ships were silhouetted against the lightening eastern sky in morning nautical twilight. Neither side had the advantage of radar during this engagement. : Y4 I0 k7 W* S% [) m  t, Z

. v  _' N' k1 p/ t8 kAt 19,000 yards Renown turned to a new course to expose her full broadside. At 0405 the Renown opened fire on the Gneisenau whose crew was uncertain about the identity of the Renown and taking the Scharnhorst by surprise.

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可见HMS Renown （声望号战巡）在19000码左右准备射击，实际命中距离当在此左右。 在这个时候声望号以侧面对准德军舰，而德军未能察觉，所以实际距离估计是19000码。
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4 P# l+ f4 L: K, ~4 ~[ 本帖最后由 brokos 于 2008-6-3 00:57 编辑 ]

hyyy

这个航海测距可能有误差，而且，射击距离和交战距离是两个概念．

brokos

Calabria / Punta Stilo, 9 July 1940. , v; g* x, U# i. R

$ }7 {, c/ ^7 [5 RThis is the first major fleet action between the British and Italian navies in World War 2. While the battleship engagement portion was minimal, it was also decisive to the outcome.5 _, B% R) L1 q" M

. C$ A* w5 s# w9 [* PThe battleship portion opens at approximately 1530 when the Warspite engaged in a duel with several Italian heavy cruisers, both sides obtaining straddles but no hits.
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At 1553 the Warspite sighted the Giulio Cesare at a range of about 26,000 yards and took her under fire. The Italian battleship replied almost simultaneously. Warspite obtained a straddle on her first salvo while the Italians were off by about 1000 yards.' w2 z# P, p  L/ S8 d4 R

7 n( o% Q5 ~" q. z  o, \After exchanging several salvos, the Warspite obtained a hit at 1559 that penetrated the deck of Giulio Cesare amidships detonating in a boiler room knocking out that boiler along with three more in adjacent boiler rooms. There were 115 casualties and the Giulio Cesare' s speed fell to 18 knots.
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The Italians then decided to break off the action and retired under a smoke screen. By 1700 Giulio Cesare had managed to make repairs that brought her speed up to 25 knots ensuring her escape. The other Italian battleship present, Cavor, did not actively engage the British, nor did the two slow British battleships present; Royal Sovereign and Malaya.

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这是英意海军在二战的首次主力舰交战 ，虽然战列舰交火有限，但是结果却是一边倒的
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在15点30分，皇家海军厌战号战列舰与意大利数艘重巡开始交火，均未能命中。
3 P$ A0 u$ J9 W, U) f15点53分，厌战号在26000码距离外发现意大利的古里奥凯撒号战列舰并开火，意方几乎同时反击。第一轮齐射英方几乎命中意方，而意方的齐射则离英方还有1000码。几轮齐射后，15点59分，厌战命中古里奥凯撒号，击穿甲板并引发多个锅炉间爆炸。死亡115人，航速降为18节...
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[ 本帖最后由 brokos 于 2008-6-3 11:15 编辑 ]

brokos

原帖由 hyyy 于 2008-6-3 00:38 发表
' j- g6 p$ _7 u9 F" O这个航海测距可能有误差，而且，射击距离和交战距离是两个概念．

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差距当然有，不过就不可能是11000多码，差太远了。

hyyy

这个是一定的了,独迷写的中文资料嘛,能写11000就不错了,要是我110码都敢写,反正YY嘛,还就有人信

brokos

原帖由 hyyy 于 2008-6-3 02:00 发表
! y, y! D# N! G3 P/ I这个是一定的了,独迷写的中文资料嘛,能写11000就不错了,要是我110码都敢写,反正YY嘛,还就有人信

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8 T% w$ [- i% H7 W' p110码不成了肉搏; r9 n4 p3 d- v! O! x
110码以内先用投石机砸，用弓箭射，然后用板子登陆敌舰

brokos

North Cape 25 - 26 December 1944. While the primary interest in this battle is damage inflicted by the two battleships involved, a discussion of the entire action is included for completeness. This action between the British battleship Duke of York (along with a number of other Royal Navy cruisers and destroyers) and the German battlecruiser Scharnhorst  took place off northern Norway on 26 December 1944.( {3 ?! O5 k' L3 e+ P

! q5 Y$ N$ u  oThis entire battle took place in poor weather, rough seas, and near or total darkness. At this time of year there was virtually no actual daylight that far north with just nautical twilight occurring.
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The first encounter between Scharnhorst and the British fleet occurred when contact was made by the 10th Cruiser Squadron (Sheffield, Belfast, and Norfolk) by radar at 0840 at a range of about 35,000 yards. While the Scharnhorst also had radar, her crew failed to detect the presence of the British cruisers. The British began to close with the German ship and at 0924 the Belfast began the action by illuminating Scharnhorst with star shell. The Scharnhorst, taken by surprise began to alter course and work up to 30 knots to avoid combat.
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. L! ?, q$ l3 v) jAt 0929 the cruiser Norfolk opened fire on Scharnhorst at a range of 9,800 yards. Between 0929 and 0940 when Scharnhorst was lost having opened the range, Norfolk scored two hits on the battlecruiser. The first struck between port 5.9" turret III and the torpedo tubes. This shell did not detonate and wrecked a couple of spaces above the armored deck starting a small fire that was quickly extinguished. The second hit was on the foretop. This hit damaged the Seetakt radar beyond repair. This left Scharnhorst with only a Seetakt aft for surface search. The problem with this is that the remaining radar had a limited forward search arc so with respect to radar, Scharnhorst was essentially blind.
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) ^* X* x: p  e  q1 E6 mAt 1205 the British cruisers regained contact with Belfast making a radar plot at 30,500 yards. Sixteen minutes later with the range down to 11,000 yards and all three British cruisers opened fire and illuminated the Scharnhorst with star shell. The Germans were not completely surprised this time and Scharnhorst quickly replied.
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- R* {3 ~1 Q+ u  m1 S( KWhile the British failed to get any additional hits, at 1233 Scharnhorst hit the Norfolk with either her 4th or 5th salvo of 11" shells. Norfolk took one hit on X turret knocking it out and requiring flooding of its magazines and another amidships that did minor damage. Damage was sufficient to knock out all but one Type 285 radar as well. The Sheffield also had splinter damage from near misses.% X/ @6 n/ D9 x! {  I/ ?; r- a

8 U. m  l' n& y: e! j( m) hAt 1241 the British broke off the action and continued to shadow the Scharnhorst. At 1345 the decision was made by the Germans to discontinue their action and return to port. The Scharnhorst now began to run at high speed back towards port.
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At 1617 a second British force, centered around the battleship Duke of York made radar contact on Scharnhorst at a range of 45,000 yards. Once again, Scharnhorst did not make a reciprocal detection. This new British group continued to close on the starboard side of Scharnhorst. At 1632 the Duke of York obtained a radar fire control solution at a range of 29,700 yards.

kevin_hx

看了半天，再联系昨天那个帖子，终于明白了，# i2 ~8 E+ u) V7 u$ T( w
原来是在争论英德舰的开火距离是超过20000码的吧？

luckpanzer

昨天的问题是老兔提出英国人实际射击距离没那么远，就引用了一篇文章的资料，可牛牛认为那东西根本就是yy。

brokos

原帖由 kevin_hx 于 2008-6-3 08:36 发表 % ~$ Z5 Y) }( ~7 o* _) v3 p
看了半天，再联系昨天那个帖子，终于明白了，$ y; v3 g" [# X
原来是在争论英德舰的开火距离是超过20000码的吧？

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( C9 {4 u4 P/ A8 F( ~5 g# \不是，那篇雷达的帖子讲的是英国火控雷达牛，所以最远命中纪录都是英国创下的。
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( i9 d, {! M: g- L4 y所以我去找资料核实具体的命中距离。
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结果和那篇雷达的文章有出入，但是比起老兔同志的yy文还是更接近

hyyy

你那篇文章是某作者在斯湾文章的基础上改动过了的,至于作者是谁,我就不知道了.........

hyyy

随便吧,牛人,我不说了,那资料已经YY的不行了,也就你信,实际的情况是,4 {7 @* C. L: O3 J. K- h# Q
英国人在3:37分就发现了德国人,德国人还啥都不知道,4点05分英国人开炮,距离19000玛(可能有测距误差,但也很接近小编写的距离了),4点17分第一次命中了,格舰被击中主炮火控系统,功能丧失,转用备份,这期间的战果完全是雷达引导取得,而且德舰在4:11分虽然有反击,但一弹没中.( v$ [4 C$ Z, a+ W/ o8 Q) Y! X
再看国内的资料就变成了,4月9日晨4时30分，在卢夫腾岛（Lofoten Islands）西南海域航行的格诺森瑙号装备的雷达探测到有不明舰只靠近,5时左右，沙恩霍斯特号上的水兵发现远处有火炮射击产生的闪光( C, [. ?+ k. k  j/ W/ G. \! l
原来5时左右等于4时5分,我真是开眼了..................

luckpanzer

德国人的反击请注意距离

brokos

原帖由 hyyy 于 2008-6-3 12:38 发表
4 y. e7 \3 h. T; Q5 M" ~你那篇文章是某作者在斯湾文章的基础上改动过了的,至于作者是谁,我就不知道了.........

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% X' x( C+ u9 Q; b% _) l6 Ehttp://www.rnepoch.com/battle/story/25revssg/revssg.htm' Y3 V! R( M( u  T1 q0 d% g1 f' @0 f
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斯湾上的材料也是大致如此

Surcouf

声望真正的命中距离如果是19000,那美国人就直接引进284算了,还自己研发什么?